It is for this reason we cannot walk away from what is happening in the Middle East. The war crimes that Israel is committing are not justified by the crimes of Hamas but somehow we are willing to turn a blind eye to the many innocents that are the victims of this irrational conflict, It is not as if the Israelis are not documenting their war crimes:
Protest atheism; the sheer refusal to believe in a god who was willing to allow human suffering in order to give humanity free will. I was absolutely with Ivan when I first read The Brothers Karamazov as a passionate university student (on a barricade outside the S11 protests in Melbourne in 2001; the police asked me to put my Oxford World's Classics copy away, as it could be used as a weapon).
I am still a protest atheist; I still refuse to believe in a god who allows human suffering for some greater good. So this Sunday I'm using Jurgen Moltmann's The Crucified God as the basis of my sermon, because as Dietrich Bonhoeffer said while imprisoned by the Nazis in 1944, ‘The Bible directs man to God’s powerlessness and suffering; only the suffering God can help’.
People who claim to be people of faith cannot ever be indifferent to suffering, or believe that suffering can be justified if it is being inflicted for some greater good, whether that is the imprisonment of asylum seekers to 'stop the boats' or the slaughter of countless Palestinians because 'Israel has the right to defend itself'. For Christians in particular, who believe that on the cross we see God being judicially murdered, as Moltmann writes 'There is no suffering which in this history of God is not God’s suffering; no death which has not been God’s death in the history on Golgotha.'
I will never, ever, ever, be able to understand the Christians who are currently justifying genocide. Nor will I ever be able to understand that Jewish Israelis who accept the support of Christian Zionists, knowing that what Christian Zionists want is for the 'return' of Jews to Israel to trigger the Second Coming. To see someone like John Hagee at an American 'March for Israel' late last year literally made me sick.
At the moment I am struggling with our very existence when people can talk about such evil and use the fairy in the sky/ Santa Claus as their excuse to inflict such cruelty on another.Interesting that children who are cruel to animals can often be seen to commit horrific murders as they take on an adult persona and what type of religion can possibly find sense in the story of a virgin giving birth to a child that had a father yet contained genes of this magical God who wants his son to spread Goodness until such time as his followers decide he has to die in order to be reborn Am I right to feel confused and even ANGRY 🤬
Thanks Tim. Compelling reading. And so together we must keep protesting and campaigning and calling out our Government’s complicity - why no sanctions on Israeli government war criminals? Aa for the Liberals and Nationals- they are just cruelly and xenophobicly delusional. Then remember when it comes to vote.
Someone posted some more old footage of Albanese defending Palestine, calling out the Israeli government: I would love to hear him talk about how his approach/views/beliefs/whatever have changed and why. I guess he would never address the matter atm if asked. Is he the sort to write a searching bio after leaving office? Anyway, thanks, Janet.
Interesting question about the searching bio. I tend to think not. But it is wryly amusing/ disturbing how such people can be capable of reflection post parliament - but generally not reflecting on their inconsistencies whilst they were there! A reflection on their authenticity in itself.
It's like the spell breaks. I see it with journalists all the time. Social media is full of retired journalists suddenly noticing that the media isn't a pure stream of bias-free reporting and analysis.
Lovely stuff - a nice change from argument/lie/counter-lie/argument that seems the ongoing narrative. It's been very heartening to see how many young people are just not buying the snake oil, and are protesting regularly. I was amazed to hear from a Parisian that the French Court has passed a law against protests supporting Palestine in France - there is a number cut-off on allowable "gatherings", but that's it. I did think the protest I attended in Marseille felt v small compared to the Melbourne ones we attend. Not so much liberty, egalite and fraternite it would seem.
It is so interesting the extent to which young people are resisting the master narrative. Bloody social media! I'm bummed to hear that about French protests. Wtf?
Admiration, Tim - for reading and finding this kind of detail - it certainly puts Himmler - in some senses - on a higher plane than the current Zionist ugliness and callousness STILL playing out on the children and others - citizens - parents, grand-parents - journalists - of Palestine/Gaza and now into Lebanon.
Thanks, Jim, but I disagree. Himmler was as bad as anyone gets and the r'ship with Hitler is fascinating if appalling. Something I am trying to get my head around. Like all of this.
I do agree with you, Tim...I was only trying to draw some comparison or some distinction with the one who spoke in the way he did to a small select group of Nazi Leaders and the others - the Zionists - who openly post little children singing ugly songs and widespread Television programs debating the most disgusting things about Palestinians and a society openly applauding...and while I recognise there may be some citizens who are Jewish and not Zionist - they are given no platform to speak out about the atrocities being committed in their name.
Once one sees where and when this happens, and it happens everywhere, in the past and present, and sad,y in the future, still unseen and seen , one cannot unsee it.
Thanks Tim. The NT is about to reduce the age of criminal responsibility to ten, defying "the do-gooders down south" so it's not all happening so far away.
This is a chilling. For myself, the most devastating part is Himmler trying to justify murdering jewish children because they don't want their children and grandchildren coming after their own descendants, I have heard Israelis express this more bluntly saying that they need to kill Palestinian children because "... they're only going to grow up to be terrorists" .
Thanks for this.
A beautiful, if terribly heartbreaking, piece of writing. The echoes of the past are important to acknowledge: Every. Single. Day. Until. It. Ends
Agree, Kathy, thanks.
It is for this reason we cannot walk away from what is happening in the Middle East. The war crimes that Israel is committing are not justified by the crimes of Hamas but somehow we are willing to turn a blind eye to the many innocents that are the victims of this irrational conflict, It is not as if the Israelis are not documenting their war crimes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPE6vbKix6A
Awful new images today, pertinent to this: https://twitter.com/DropSiteNews/status/1847365485530169724
Le Guin always understood the simplest and most important truths of the world.
Such a fan.
Protest atheism; the sheer refusal to believe in a god who was willing to allow human suffering in order to give humanity free will. I was absolutely with Ivan when I first read The Brothers Karamazov as a passionate university student (on a barricade outside the S11 protests in Melbourne in 2001; the police asked me to put my Oxford World's Classics copy away, as it could be used as a weapon).
I am still a protest atheist; I still refuse to believe in a god who allows human suffering for some greater good. So this Sunday I'm using Jurgen Moltmann's The Crucified God as the basis of my sermon, because as Dietrich Bonhoeffer said while imprisoned by the Nazis in 1944, ‘The Bible directs man to God’s powerlessness and suffering; only the suffering God can help’.
People who claim to be people of faith cannot ever be indifferent to suffering, or believe that suffering can be justified if it is being inflicted for some greater good, whether that is the imprisonment of asylum seekers to 'stop the boats' or the slaughter of countless Palestinians because 'Israel has the right to defend itself'. For Christians in particular, who believe that on the cross we see God being judicially murdered, as Moltmann writes 'There is no suffering which in this history of God is not God’s suffering; no death which has not been God’s death in the history on Golgotha.'
I will never, ever, ever, be able to understand the Christians who are currently justifying genocide. Nor will I ever be able to understand that Jewish Israelis who accept the support of Christian Zionists, knowing that what Christian Zionists want is for the 'return' of Jews to Israel to trigger the Second Coming. To see someone like John Hagee at an American 'March for Israel' late last year literally made me sick.
Thanks, Avril. I will also read Moltmann's piece: I don't know it at all.
If you can cope with ‘sermon’ as a genre of writing: https://revdocgeek.com/2024/10/20/reflection-genocide-and-the-crucified-god/
Thanks. I am definitely one of those sermon-reading atheists...
Thanks, Tim. This really puts Gaza, and other atrocities, in context.
At the moment I am struggling with our very existence when people can talk about such evil and use the fairy in the sky/ Santa Claus as their excuse to inflict such cruelty on another.Interesting that children who are cruel to animals can often be seen to commit horrific murders as they take on an adult persona and what type of religion can possibly find sense in the story of a virgin giving birth to a child that had a father yet contained genes of this magical God who wants his son to spread Goodness until such time as his followers decide he has to die in order to be reborn Am I right to feel confused and even ANGRY 🤬
Thanks Tim. Compelling reading. And so together we must keep protesting and campaigning and calling out our Government’s complicity - why no sanctions on Israeli government war criminals? Aa for the Liberals and Nationals- they are just cruelly and xenophobicly delusional. Then remember when it comes to vote.
Why no sanctions? Because the Jewish donors to L & the LNP have deep pockets and support from the RW media.
I don’t know for sure, but I believe the L party move away from support for Palestinians lies with Bob Hawke’s daddy issues he had with Peter Ables.
Someone posted some more old footage of Albanese defending Palestine, calling out the Israeli government: I would love to hear him talk about how his approach/views/beliefs/whatever have changed and why. I guess he would never address the matter atm if asked. Is he the sort to write a searching bio after leaving office? Anyway, thanks, Janet.
Interesting question about the searching bio. I tend to think not. But it is wryly amusing/ disturbing how such people can be capable of reflection post parliament - but generally not reflecting on their inconsistencies whilst they were there! A reflection on their authenticity in itself.
And a reflection on the party-solidarity bind - of course.
It's like the spell breaks. I see it with journalists all the time. Social media is full of retired journalists suddenly noticing that the media isn't a pure stream of bias-free reporting and analysis.
Lovely stuff - a nice change from argument/lie/counter-lie/argument that seems the ongoing narrative. It's been very heartening to see how many young people are just not buying the snake oil, and are protesting regularly. I was amazed to hear from a Parisian that the French Court has passed a law against protests supporting Palestine in France - there is a number cut-off on allowable "gatherings", but that's it. I did think the protest I attended in Marseille felt v small compared to the Melbourne ones we attend. Not so much liberty, egalite and fraternite it would seem.
It is so interesting the extent to which young people are resisting the master narrative. Bloody social media! I'm bummed to hear that about French protests. Wtf?
Indeed - quelle surprise. And it was a year ago too! https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-court-upholds-government-instruction-ban-all-pro-palestine-protests-2023-10-18/
Admiration, Tim - for reading and finding this kind of detail - it certainly puts Himmler - in some senses - on a higher plane than the current Zionist ugliness and callousness STILL playing out on the children and others - citizens - parents, grand-parents - journalists - of Palestine/Gaza and now into Lebanon.
Thanks, Jim, but I disagree. Himmler was as bad as anyone gets and the r'ship with Hitler is fascinating if appalling. Something I am trying to get my head around. Like all of this.
I do agree with you, Tim...I was only trying to draw some comparison or some distinction with the one who spoke in the way he did to a small select group of Nazi Leaders and the others - the Zionists - who openly post little children singing ugly songs and widespread Television programs debating the most disgusting things about Palestinians and a society openly applauding...and while I recognise there may be some citizens who are Jewish and not Zionist - they are given no platform to speak out about the atrocities being committed in their name.
Once one sees where and when this happens, and it happens everywhere, in the past and present, and sad,y in the future, still unseen and seen , one cannot unsee it.
Thanks Tim. The NT is about to reduce the age of criminal responsibility to ten, defying "the do-gooders down south" so it's not all happening so far away.
Exactly right. That we do this is such a stain.
This is a chilling. For myself, the most devastating part is Himmler trying to justify murdering jewish children because they don't want their children and grandchildren coming after their own descendants, I have heard Israelis express this more bluntly saying that they need to kill Palestinian children because "... they're only going to grow up to be terrorists" .
Agree completely. That bit is shocking.