Whenever I argued with Labor rusted-ons before the 2022 election, the NACC was, along with the Voice and the woefully inadequate Housing Australia Future Fund, one of the three big things Albanese was going to deliver. Further comment superfluous
Sorry, but that’s putting it mildly. Imo Albanese is a bigger hypocrite that Morrison by a long shot. No one expected any better form him, but Albanese and his “I’m from the Left, my poor ol’ Ma and I’ve supported Palestinians forever” schtick, is vomit inducing.
There must be a bus driving around Canberra with his name on it somewhere. Please God, please.
I think they've miscalculated even on getting re-elected, at least as far as majority government is concerned. On Gaza, they've ended up tagging along behind Dutton, and letting the Greens take the Palestinian side. They'll lose votes both ways,
The NACC not pursuing further accountability for the robodebt shows it is working exactly as ALP and LNP intended, compared to the versions put forth by Helen Haines and the Greens. Anything too embarrassing held behind closed doors so we won’t ever find out the involvement of senior ministers and bureaucrats.
Schrödinger’s cat situation: until the NACC decides to publicly announce it is investigating, we can’t ever know what was discussed!
John Quiggin/Dan Davies alerted me to the term "Moral Crumple Zone", which I think might apply: "an accountability sink which does something ghastly and is reformed or destroyed as a system, but which has performed its intended function of protecting another individual or system."
We are Robodebt. Until we expunge the vestiges of this corrupt and demeaning scheme by - at the very least - following the recommendations of Holmes that people be referrred for criminal charges, Australia will remain as heartless and soulless as that whole process. I can see the APSC sweeping the whole stinking mess under the carpet. "Not add value in the public interest"??? Whose interest, again? Which public?
It doesn't surprise me that public servants are immunising themselves to any consequences.
"That they could tweet such a thing is cluelessness bordering on cruelty" and fairly commonplace for any entity with 'govau' in its name, the cluelessness revealed with its opening sentence: "In deciding whether to commence a corruption investigation, the Commission takes into account a range of factors. ' Well derrr....?? That sounds like something a first year public servant would write (under direct supervision from an equally clueless manager). And from my experience they do it - all the time. Whole pages that you just want to somehow rip out of your device, screw up into a ball and put it to a naked flame. Then take the ashes and bury them. Anything to rid yourself of the pious, complacent, smug and self-satisfied attitudes that prevail in the APS. I endured nearly three decades of it in the APS, and towards the end it drove me slightly insane.
As Rick Morton points out today (seems everyone is joining in on this "pile-on"!), 'Kathryn Campbell is no longer an employee of the APS. Annette Musolino, the former chief counsel of DHS, is no longer an employee of the public service. Neither is Serena Wilson or Mark Withnell'. So the APSC can't touch those people, the leads and supporting cast of Robodebt. Who can? Who will?
I wouldn't call it a pile-on, lol. Rick has done fantastic work on this. But I think there is room for the APSC to pursue people after they leave the PS, certainly they have argued that. But I'm going to have to find the reference where I read that.
No, "pile-on' was a bit of an oblique reference to Laura Tingle's remarks. Sorry for the hyperbole.
It seems from my Google search that the APSC cannot 'sanction' ex-public servants. So the garnering of wages or dismissal options are not available, which is not surprising. Perhaps they can still refer ex-APS employees for criminal charges? Let's see!
Of course! One ref I found is this: the article is worth a read anyway.
"The APSC has argued it has the power to continue investigations to their conclusion even after person has left the APS, with findings of a breach of the Code of Conduct remaining on their APS record and potentially precluding them from undertaking private sector work supplied to the government, or returning to the public service."
This has disappointed me as much as anything else in this term of government. I think the only hope for a proper, adequate corruption commission lies with the cross bench. Am hoping we have minority govt soon.
Also worth reading Rick Morton's piece today. He is definitely tired of everyone's shit!
I don’t find any of this surprising. Who lead the warcrimes inquiry that found that the senior command had nothing to answer for?
This just shows senior PSs that they provide the cover for senior ministers to screw up and they will be protected from the aftermath. Albanese got to sling the proverbial at the LNP Gov while retaining the ability to do the same as the LNP did when the time comes; blame the PS and move on.
Dear Tim: You have said it all - with cold truth - that the politicians are the foxes in the hen-house who are doing nothing to bring justice and punishment for the hundreds of thousands treated so abysmally by our government and its nasty "we will come after you" politicians driving the anguish and - some say - up to two thousand suicides. And Scott Morrison free - as you allude to - the single most galling thing of all - off to babblemania his way into millions of (J)AUKUS money from the very contracts he wrote - with his fellow evangelical - the gross Mike Pompeo. That Australia has been conned by Albanese, Marles, Wong and Dreyfus is so disgusting I cannot get my tongue around the chips I want to spit at their effrontery to the nation. If at the next election enough TEAL-like folk of decency were to stand - the ALP and the LNP would be washed from their corruption-filled stables of the national parliament and the nation enabled to start afresh on the road to probity and maybe we might see the growth towards democracy. We need to prepare a Bastille now to accommodate them and their civil servant enablers!
Ronni Salt has published a link to a quite hidden complaint mechanism pertaining to the NACC - and is encouraging anyone who is frustrated (every sentient Australian) to take a few moments to register a complaint. As she says, action a marked improvement on head-shaking and throwing shows at TVs - link here: https://www.naccinspector.gov.au/make-complaint
It is heart-breaking. Didn't we change our government a couple of years ago? There was so much hope that day. What happened? If this is the best that we can hope for from Labor, we really do need to try something else. And I don't mean another party or a different leader. We need a system that is much more democratic and representative, like a representative democracy should be. A truly democratic system would be putting some of these people behind bars, after due process, of course. But a truly democratic system would not have allowed this cruelty to occur in the first place.
Too often, as you suggest, our systems actively protect, even reward, people for what amounts to malfeasance. It is a top-heavy system, prejudiced against ordinary voters, esp the most powerless. Yes, it has to change.
The lack of accountability for those who oversaw and empowered the robodebt scheme is incredibly depressing. This absence of consequences undermines the integrity of our political system and erodes public faith in the very notion of government.
Indeed, the failure to hold individuals accountable for their actions, particularly when they have far-reaching implications, makes it increasingly difficult for those trying to maintain an apolitical approach to public policy.
Such a determination confirms that such behaviour by the executive class (bureaucratic and political) is acceptable. This is not conducive to a healthy democracy and confirms that concepts like transparency, accountability, and the rule of law are outdated guiding principles.
Thus, why should we be surprised at the marked decline in public trust in organised politics? When people see those in power acting without accountability, how can we begrudge them their cynicism and disengagement? It's a shame that so many seem confused about where the real culprits lay.
Tip: those with all the money and power are generally those who pull the strings (and the rug over your eyes).
Why are we shocked at how the ruling class treat the vulnerable? Politically, the response of the government will decide if Robodebt is relevant to the next election. Sadly, I think it won't be.
This is a complete disgrace - as was the whole RoboDebt saga.
I love the way they declare further action is not in the public interest. That bit really got me.
Whenever I argued with Labor rusted-ons before the 2022 election, the NACC was, along with the Voice and the woefully inadequate Housing Australia Future Fund, one of the three big things Albanese was going to deliver. Further comment superfluous
He's been a huge disappointment.
Sorry, but that’s putting it mildly. Imo Albanese is a bigger hypocrite that Morrison by a long shot. No one expected any better form him, but Albanese and his “I’m from the Left, my poor ol’ Ma and I’ve supported Palestinians forever” schtick, is vomit inducing.
There must be a bus driving around Canberra with his name on it somewhere. Please God, please.
The only concern they have is to get reelected.
I think they've miscalculated even on getting re-elected, at least as far as majority government is concerned. On Gaza, they've ended up tagging along behind Dutton, and letting the Greens take the Palestinian side. They'll lose votes both ways,
This could give us an excellent result.
The NACC not pursuing further accountability for the robodebt shows it is working exactly as ALP and LNP intended, compared to the versions put forth by Helen Haines and the Greens. Anything too embarrassing held behind closed doors so we won’t ever find out the involvement of senior ministers and bureaucrats.
Schrödinger’s cat situation: until the NACC decides to publicly announce it is investigating, we can’t ever know what was discussed!
John Quiggin/Dan Davies alerted me to the term "Moral Crumple Zone", which I think might apply: "an accountability sink which does something ghastly and is reformed or destroyed as a system, but which has performed its intended function of protecting another individual or system."
What is the point of this corruption commission?
Will the survivors of this shocking treatment still be waiting 20 years for justice like the Post Office managers in the UK?
Not only did the NACC take far to long to arrive, it isn't even the one we wanted.
I want to see everyone responsible for Robodebt punished.
We are Robodebt. Until we expunge the vestiges of this corrupt and demeaning scheme by - at the very least - following the recommendations of Holmes that people be referrred for criminal charges, Australia will remain as heartless and soulless as that whole process. I can see the APSC sweeping the whole stinking mess under the carpet. "Not add value in the public interest"??? Whose interest, again? Which public?
It doesn't surprise me that public servants are immunising themselves to any consequences.
"That they could tweet such a thing is cluelessness bordering on cruelty" and fairly commonplace for any entity with 'govau' in its name, the cluelessness revealed with its opening sentence: "In deciding whether to commence a corruption investigation, the Commission takes into account a range of factors. ' Well derrr....?? That sounds like something a first year public servant would write (under direct supervision from an equally clueless manager). And from my experience they do it - all the time. Whole pages that you just want to somehow rip out of your device, screw up into a ball and put it to a naked flame. Then take the ashes and bury them. Anything to rid yourself of the pious, complacent, smug and self-satisfied attitudes that prevail in the APS. I endured nearly three decades of it in the APS, and towards the end it drove me slightly insane.
As Rick Morton points out today (seems everyone is joining in on this "pile-on"!), 'Kathryn Campbell is no longer an employee of the APS. Annette Musolino, the former chief counsel of DHS, is no longer an employee of the public service. Neither is Serena Wilson or Mark Withnell'. So the APSC can't touch those people, the leads and supporting cast of Robodebt. Who can? Who will?
https://rickmorton.substack.com/p/off-to-the-naccery?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1070795&post_id=145397636&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=5brvn&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
I wouldn't call it a pile-on, lol. Rick has done fantastic work on this. But I think there is room for the APSC to pursue people after they leave the PS, certainly they have argued that. But I'm going to have to find the reference where I read that.
No, "pile-on' was a bit of an oblique reference to Laura Tingle's remarks. Sorry for the hyperbole.
It seems from my Google search that the APSC cannot 'sanction' ex-public servants. So the garnering of wages or dismissal options are not available, which is not surprising. Perhaps they can still refer ex-APS employees for criminal charges? Let's see!
Of course! One ref I found is this: the article is worth a read anyway.
"The APSC has argued it has the power to continue investigations to their conclusion even after person has left the APS, with findings of a breach of the Code of Conduct remaining on their APS record and potentially precluding them from undertaking private sector work supplied to the government, or returning to the public service."
https://www.themandarin.com.au/247941-nacc-dumps-robodebt-corruption-probe/
Wow! They even have wet lettuce leaves!
Mercurial: Thanks for the link to Rick Morton - the fire in my belly has grown stronger!
There's a withering editorial in The Saturday Paper today as well.
I suspect they might've timed their press release to avoid a RM article this Saturday in the paper.
This has disappointed me as much as anything else in this term of government. I think the only hope for a proper, adequate corruption commission lies with the cross bench. Am hoping we have minority govt soon.
Also worth reading Rick Morton's piece today. He is definitely tired of everyone's shit!
It is so emblematic, isn't it? Of hope squashed.
I don’t find any of this surprising. Who lead the warcrimes inquiry that found that the senior command had nothing to answer for?
This just shows senior PSs that they provide the cover for senior ministers to screw up and they will be protected from the aftermath. Albanese got to sling the proverbial at the LNP Gov while retaining the ability to do the same as the LNP did when the time comes; blame the PS and move on.
Dear Tim: You have said it all - with cold truth - that the politicians are the foxes in the hen-house who are doing nothing to bring justice and punishment for the hundreds of thousands treated so abysmally by our government and its nasty "we will come after you" politicians driving the anguish and - some say - up to two thousand suicides. And Scott Morrison free - as you allude to - the single most galling thing of all - off to babblemania his way into millions of (J)AUKUS money from the very contracts he wrote - with his fellow evangelical - the gross Mike Pompeo. That Australia has been conned by Albanese, Marles, Wong and Dreyfus is so disgusting I cannot get my tongue around the chips I want to spit at their effrontery to the nation. If at the next election enough TEAL-like folk of decency were to stand - the ALP and the LNP would be washed from their corruption-filled stables of the national parliament and the nation enabled to start afresh on the road to probity and maybe we might see the growth towards democracy. We need to prepare a Bastille now to accommodate them and their civil servant enablers!
Words fail. But actions sometimes do not.
Ronni Salt has published a link to a quite hidden complaint mechanism pertaining to the NACC - and is encouraging anyone who is frustrated (every sentient Australian) to take a few moments to register a complaint. As she says, action a marked improvement on head-shaking and throwing shows at TVs - link here: https://www.naccinspector.gov.au/make-complaint
Yes, worth complaining. They respond to volume at the end of the day so the more the merrier.
It is heart-breaking. Didn't we change our government a couple of years ago? There was so much hope that day. What happened? If this is the best that we can hope for from Labor, we really do need to try something else. And I don't mean another party or a different leader. We need a system that is much more democratic and representative, like a representative democracy should be. A truly democratic system would be putting some of these people behind bars, after due process, of course. But a truly democratic system would not have allowed this cruelty to occur in the first place.
Too often, as you suggest, our systems actively protect, even reward, people for what amounts to malfeasance. It is a top-heavy system, prejudiced against ordinary voters, esp the most powerless. Yes, it has to change.
The lack of accountability for those who oversaw and empowered the robodebt scheme is incredibly depressing. This absence of consequences undermines the integrity of our political system and erodes public faith in the very notion of government.
Indeed, the failure to hold individuals accountable for their actions, particularly when they have far-reaching implications, makes it increasingly difficult for those trying to maintain an apolitical approach to public policy.
Such a determination confirms that such behaviour by the executive class (bureaucratic and political) is acceptable. This is not conducive to a healthy democracy and confirms that concepts like transparency, accountability, and the rule of law are outdated guiding principles.
Thus, why should we be surprised at the marked decline in public trust in organised politics? When people see those in power acting without accountability, how can we begrudge them their cynicism and disengagement? It's a shame that so many seem confused about where the real culprits lay.
Tip: those with all the money and power are generally those who pull the strings (and the rug over your eyes).
Can someone help me? I can’t “like” comments!
This sometimes happens; I don't know why. Has happened to me. Try clicking like and then refresh the page.
Thanks Tim, tried but no result. I’ll try another browser (was using duckduck).
Why are we shocked at how the ruling class treat the vulnerable? Politically, the response of the government will decide if Robodebt is relevant to the next election. Sadly, I think it won't be.
Shocked. Angry. Maybe not surprised.